In today’s podcast, we interview Dr. Kip Glazer, principal of Mountainview High School in Silicon Valley. Kip is someone I had the chance to connect with early on and meet in-person at an event at Google in NYC.
In this podcast, we cover --
Kip’s new book: Ready to Lead With AI: A Practical Guide for School Leaders
Kip’s transition from English teacher to technology coach to principal
Operating under our current, pre-AI curriculum in the AI world
How the curriculum students need to master to get into college may not be what students need for life success
Process learning, debate, and students’ learning through speaking in the classroom
Celebrating and empowering students who often know more than us, especially in AI
How can we all help students do something to prepare for the AI World.
Kip’s establishment of the Principal’s Tech Internship at her schoolAccepting constructive feedback from students
The role of teachers in sharing experience, judgment, interaction, and empowerment with students.
The ideal of non-age-banded education
Chapter 1: Welcome & Introduction
Welcome back to the AIX Higher Ed podcast. We are so pleased to join with Dr. Kip Glazer, the principal of Mountain View High School in Silicon Valley. And thank you so much, Dr. Glazer, for joining us today.
Kip’s great, and so glad to have this conversation with you both. Well, thanks, Kip. I appreciate it.
Chapter 2: From Teacher to Principal: A Leadership Turning Point
Anand: Let me start off by asking a little bit about your journey. You started as an English teacher, as I understand, you worked as a professional development facilitator, went back and earned your doctorate at Pepperdine, and now you’re the principal of a Silicon Valley high school. And that’s quite a journey. What was the moment that made you say, I need to lead and not just teach.
Kip: That’s a great question. I get asked a lot. I never wanted to be the principal, by the way. Didn’t even want to be an administrator cuz as teachers know, you join the dark side, whatever. I was a very happy district-level technology instructional coach, and that was my favorite job and I will go back and do that job any minute cuz there are only, in my opinion, two kinds of people: those who hate technology and those who love technology—and both of those people are very happy to see you when you’re an instructional technology coach. They walk in, and either they want to share what they know about technology, or they’re glad that you’re there to help them fix things.
So, I was minding my own business, having a great time working with teachers, working with administrators, and I was supposed to go present this new Chromebook rollout to a group of 18 principals. And one of them—I actually wrote about this interaction in my book—one of the principles basically said his school is not interested, and I was so shocked. Who wouldn’t be interested in the Chromebook rollout?
So then I asked my tech director, and I said, “Can a principal do that?” Like, it just didn’t even occur to me, right? Like, you can just publicly decline the tools. And my tech director said, “Yeah, you cannot really force a sitting principal who is publicly against something. That’s not a good idea.” And I said, “Well, but the kids need the thing that I’m trying to give to that school.” And he basically challenged me to become a leader. That’s why I’m here. Chose poorly, I think. Just kiddingř
Chapter 3: Why Write Ready to Lead with AI
Stefan: I remember reading that story. It’s right at the beginning of your book that just came out; it’s called Ready to Lead With AI. And I assume that was part of the catalyst for the book as well, because you wanted to share or like what else motivated you to write the book?
Kip: Yes, that’s a great question. That’s kind of it. I think that I came from South Korea when I was 23 years old to the United States, believing something about this country. And I still do believe that. But I think the reality and the ideal sometimes don’t mesh. And I think that I wanted to share what it’s like to really manage a comprehensive high school, not an idealized version or—frankly—it’s not a Saved by the Bell kind of situation, right? It’s not that funny.
There are a lot of things that are going on behind the scenes that make this job very challenging, and I wanted to share that about here’s what actually being a principal is like. And with AI, it’s getting more complex and complicated, and I wanted to share with my people that here are some things that worked for me. I made it very clear, hopefully you read that, that I’m not saying that this is the end-all be-all, but this is a way to sort of see what’s happening and get some ideas as to what a high school principal is doing or thinking in the heart of the epicenter of the AI revolution, essentially. The human problems—the staffing problems or athletic problems—are the same; it’s just I have a little more experience with learning technologies, and hopefully the stories will help you.
Chapter 4: The Biggest Misconception About Leading with AI
Anand: There’s so much going on with AI and education, and it’s really difficult for some people to kind of get their bearings. What would you say is the single biggest misconception that you see from school leaders about what it means to lead with AI? What does that actually require?
Yes, that’s a great question. I think there is an unwritten expectation that gets put on the leader that somehow we are the people who have to know things and make decisions. You have to have the knowledge and the trust in your leader to follow those people. The thing is that I’ve seen some administrators—in particular leaders—who don’t want to say that they don’t know, right? Because they perceive that to be somehow a weakness.
And I’ve never believed in that. If we’re asking our students to iterate, to be innovative, and ask them to fail forward, you have to model it, right? And not doing that is a problem in my opinion. So, I’ve always been very much leaning into my sort of “otherness.” Typically, when you think of a high school principal, you know, you have sort of a type—just ask the AI, they’ll give you a picture. That is not me. So I’m like, okay, I’m an immigrant. I’m a woman minority. I talk about tech all the time, right? So let’s just lean into that. And I invite other people that it’s okay to say, “I’m not quite sure how that goes, but I have a teacher on my campus who can tell me and teach me better than I can tell you.” And I think we’re all in that co-constructing mode, and I keep asking our students to join me in speaking about that.
Stefan: I imagine being in Silicon Valley, it kind of creates some unique expectations. Like you said, some people are afraid to say what they don’t know. I know of some school districts you could go in and they’d be like, “Oh, I don’t know, and we’re not really interested,” which is probably a harder attitude to have in Silicon Valley, even if some people choose to express it that way. You’re in the epicenter of it all, but you know you have been someone who experiments and adapts.
Chapter 5: “Pre-AI Curriculum in an AI World”
Stefan: One thing that stuck out in the book—I think it was a teacher who was a department head—said: “We have a pre-AI curriculum in an AI world.”
You heard that, and that’s something I think about a lot because I actually think it’s more about curriculum change and maybe even just kind of using AI, but what was your immediate reaction to that? Were you thinking about content? Were you thinking about changing some types of instruction? Were you just thinking, “Oh, we need to have some AI?” It’s such a good line— “Pre-AI curriculum.” What was your initial reaction?
Curriculum: Yes. I thought it was so wise. That’s why I shared it on LinkedIn. And that’s the core of our challenge right now. And that’s also what I wrote about in my book. This feels very similar to a pandemic, right? And one of the things that I learned during the pandemic—by the way, my first year as a principal was 2019. That’s when I started, in July of 2019. And as a first-year principal, I’m just barely like, “Okay, this is what it’s like.” You got to go through a full year to even understand what the rhythm of the school life is like.
And I remember March 13th of 2020, I remember like 8:30 in the morning, I had to record a video to the school community saying, “Hey, we’re gonna go to spring break. I’ll see you in two weeks.” And two years later, we all know the trauma of that. And we just got back. I feel like kids are coming back, doing things that are familiar and routine, making us secure, and then boom—AI comes, and now we’re doing this all over again with zero wisdom in the field.
I feel like I miss it because I can actually see it. When I started my principalship, I had tons of people to call, right? First parent complaint, first HR investigation, first cheerleading mom having a meltdown—”What do I say? How do I do this?” And there were plenty of people, elders around me. I was so lucky to say, “This is what you do. Take a deep breath and document all these things.” Boom, pandemic comes. Those people just leave, right? They’re like, “See ya, I have enough years in the field. I’m out.”
And then now here we are again with AI, and I’m like, “Who’s going to help me?” Nobody has done this before. So that’s really, really challenging. And so when he said that, that’s what reminded me. It is so true. That’s why it was so resonating—that we have this pre-AI curriculum just like we have a pre-pandemic structure in a pandemic world, right? And we had to really get over ourselves and humble ourselves to say, “Okay, we've got to try it.” Just like “six feet apart,” we got to try it, right? Okay, we’re gonna implement Brisk or NotebookLM or ChatGPT, whatever. We have to try it and we do it in small increments. We do it with trusted people first before we give it to kids. And we do it while we’re dealing with the virus all around us, right? Because kids are just using AI without any guidance or safeguards. So that’s why I share that line. We have to, as a field and as grown-ups in this conversation, really think about how we center our students at the end of the day. We’re here for the kids. Let’s humble ourselves. Let’s put our brains together and support the kids.
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Chapter 6: Balancing AI and Humanity in Schools
Anand You mentioned that you talk about tech a lot. Um that’s kind of your background. I think Stefan and I can certainly relate to that. And I bet you’ve experienced something that we’ve also experienced. Anytime I give a talk about AI, people assume that I’m unconditionally pro-AI. I must be one of the “tech bros” or somebody that’s just pro at using AI for everything. And really it’s hard for them to get their head around the idea maybe there’s something in between.
How do you negotiate that when you’re talking with your teachers or parents or students about the role for AI in the school, but also the role for humans? And I think you’ve even said the school needs more humans, not just more AI. But you’re also talking about pro-AI. That’s a more complex story to tell. How do you negotiate that with the broader community in your school?
Kip: That’s a great question. First of all, I’m lucky I’m not one of the bros, like you can tell. Just kidding, I’m just teasing. Yes. I think that I lean into my personal and professional experiences as I’m talking about it. Right? So, I’m a mother. I’m a grandmother and I talk about: what kind of world do we want to build for my granddaughter?
I really don’t want the robots taking care of my granddaughter, right? I can’t even—and I want to challenge or invite conversation. Do you really want that? Do you really want to send your kids to a school where robots are running around? And if that’s not what we want, right? It’s easier to kind of pinpoint what we don’t want. The hard work is okay, then what do we really want? It is the human connection where we’re in charge of the tools—not allowing tools to become in charge of us.
I was recently reviewing some grant application or some kind of application and one of the respondents wrote: “What is the biggest challenge? What are some big questions we should be asking?” And the person said, “How do we know what we’re thinking is actually our own when AI becomes so atmospheric?” And I thought that was such an important question for us to ask because I am seeing my students who can’t answer me a direct question until they check, right? They’re googling first because they don’t want to be wrong. And I think that’s why some of the teachers are saying, “Put your devices away.”
And I think if we can go a step further—students want to check to make sure that their answer is right because we build a system where we reward correct answers only. And I think that’s why, Stefan, you’re doing things like debate, right? You’re doing it so that we are rewarding the process and the effort, not just the product. And I think that’s actually a good thing. The kids need to be able to see it.
Chapter 7: Process Over Product: A New Learning Paradigm
Kip: I had this very interesting conversation with one of my students. I have a tech internship program at my school, where we identify as a leadership development program with a tech accelerator mixed in. And I was having a conversation with a brilliant young man who was on the main stage at Common Sense’s media summit recently. And I said, “Yash, you got to work on your delegation skills.”
And he’s like, “But why? I can ask the AI to do it and it does it better than the freshman that I have to mentor.” And I said, “Because remember—” and he goes, “I know, Dr. Glazer. It’s about the process. It’s about human development. It’s about the friction. It’s about the struggle. It’s about persevering.” But then he says, “But he cannot make a good flyer. Canva does it better.”
And I said, “That’s actually you learning how to be human. Be patient with other people’s flaws that machines see—because that’s what makes us beautiful and diverse. The way that you develop patience with that freshman you’re supposed to mentor, the way that you just sit and listen to some nonsense these kids are saying as you’re prepping them for debate—that is part of being a human. We need to actually have more patience and wisdom to allow our young people to get to where we are. And that’s what I’m concerned about. The AI system just looks at that as a flaw and tries to program it out of our kids—and I think we have to fight back.
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Chapter 8: Are Devices or AI the Real Problem?
Anand: Let me ask you a little follow-up to that because I think that what you’re identifying—I certainly see that with high school students—is the concern about social interaction. I love the way that you’re framing it. How much of that do you think is due to AI tools being integrated and incorporated into their work and their life? And how much of it is just the result of social media and Chromebooks and laptops and devices? You know, I hear some people say maybe it’s not just AI, it’s just that students are so device-attentive and they’re so tied to their device that this is just another aspect of it. Do you see it as a distinct cause or concern when we’re talking about that mindset?
Kip: I am definitely concerned that our students don’t even know how to walk up to me and say hello, make eye contact, and shake my hand. And to say that that’s not concerning is a problem, right? And I’m just like—we’re building a system where people can avoid that altogether rather than create a culture and environment where adults demand civility, demand manners.
I read this article in the Washington Post where now these Silicon Valley programmers are joining like this etiquette school because they don’t even know how to say hello to another human—and it’s here already. And I dislike this binary sort of “get rid of the screen then everything will be great.” I think those bad-mannered people existed before TV was invented, before the screen was invented, before the smartphone was here. It’s human nature, right? And we constantly look for a scapegoat, and I’m just like, grown-ups, you got to model it. If you want to see more civility, then speak with integrity. Speak with kindness. Stop blaming the unregulated screen time.
And I’m not letting those big tech companies off the hook either. We all know that they’re creating algorithms to get the kids because it’s the attention economy, and you are creating an environment where it’s addicting. So, we need to address that. And adults need to say, “It’s 9:00 p.m. You’re not going to be on that screen. Go to bed. Give me the phone.” You’ll be surprised—and maybe you will not be surprised—there are parents asking me, “Can you make sure my child puts away his phone after midnight?” And I’m like, “I don’t live at your house. I don’t understand what this ask is about.” I don’t get it. And how do you do that? And I’m like, “I go up to my child and say, ‘Give me the phone.’” “Does he fight you?” And I’m like, “No.” Right. Like, that doesn’t start at 18. It needs to start at one or two years old.
Chapter 9: The Case for Debate and Student Engagement
Stefan: One thing I always think about is—and you know you have a very good debate team in Mountain View High School—when I work with students, it’s mostly in debate. I don’t teach a regular class and have to try to get the kids to pay attention to me, right? We talk about debate arguments. We practice. You know, sometimes they look at their phone or chat on their device, but when they’re in a debate, they’re 99% engaged. So, I’m wondering if you thought of—you know, the one thing I’ve been trying to argue for a bit is to expand debate, maybe expand the team if you can or work with teachers to integrate some debate in the classroom. Because I think that it kind of almost renders this technology addiction less relevant. Not completely irrelevant, but students are engaged in a classroom debate or even in a game that they’re not just going to be on their phones or on their laptops the whole time.
Kip: Yes, I agree with you. I think there are certain pedagogies that you can employ in the classroom to invite that, and I think it can be very simple: “The person who’s talking is doing the learning.” I like to keep things very simple, right?
So I think I posted it on LinkedIn one time—when I arrived at Mountain View, I said, “What’s our goal? Inclusion is our goal. What’s our evidence? Academic language production.” And that has been the thing that we do here for the past three years, right? This is my fourth year. So that’s what I’m saying. If the teachers have that one-liner—like “pre-AI curriculum in an AI world”—it sticks. Same thing: the person who’s talking in the classroom is doing the learning. So if that’s the case, how do you create the classroom environment so that the kids can talk?
At the end of the day, I think that some teachers feel very pressured to deliver a lot of curriculum or content and that’s how they’re measuring their rigor. To me, it is: how do you leverage collaboration in the classroom and discourse in the classroom so that the student learns to love the content? Because at the end of the day, that love of learning is really what we should aspire to as educators.
Yes, I have a degree. I used to tell my students, “I’m the most educated person in the room for sure, I have a big diploma to prove that—but that doesn’t make me the smartest person because being smart is a choice.” You show up smart because you want to learn, you want to grow, you want to iterate. So are you choosing to be smart? That is not a condition like some divine being did not endow that upon you. It’s a daily choice of trying to grow as an intellectual, educated human, and I think we have to have that attitude and we have to speak about it.
We have to act that way because teenagers—Stefan you probably know too—hypocrisy does not work. If you say that you’re a good learner or you are a lifelong learner, but you deliver the same curriculum in the same way in the same lecture, kids know. They tune you out because your words and actions don’t match. So I think I would like to invite educators to really think about that.
Chapter 10: Parent Expectations vs. Educational Innovation
Anand: And you’ve been very successful in working with this kind of a change and I want to explore this a little bit with the teachers getting them out of the mindset of “it’s the content.” In college level we have the same concern—”I can’t incorporate presentations, I have content I need to deliver,” or “I have the product that I really need to work toward.” But I want to take this with a slightly different angle. Because what I also see—I have a child who’s in high school and I see this pressure from parents too. Because as much as parents would want to say “I want my child to learn to love learning and I want them to embrace the productive struggle,” what they really want are the AP scores and the transcript and the content to apply to that top 50 school they want their kid to go to. So, how do you work with parents to get them to appreciate the process over the product?
Kip: That is such a truth that you’re speaking. I got hired to work at the school because they liked my background of being innovative and all of that. And I brought Career Technical Education (CTE) programs. Well, they were stringing, and I was really pushing it because I do believe that CTE is one of those ways that we can really contextualize that sort of learning—that hands-on learning.
And parents will say, “I want you to do all these innovative things and change—make the change after my child graduates.” Because I understand the game. I’m playing the game to get my child into whatever school—you name it. Because our kids get into these amazing schools. Stanford. Harvard. All the rest. And I get it. I do get it. I’m a parent. I’m a grandma. I get it.
So, how do we do that? That’s why I’m writing a book. That’s why I’m speaking about it—because I think that there’s this perception that “I’m the only one who’s thinking this and I have to keep up with the Joneses,” right? So, we have to really speak about it because anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation among young people—that’s real, right?
Oh, I have had some blunt conversations with parents. I’ve had to have some of these conversations. And I think that’s where we need to really start because I think that it is so much easier just to go along to get along and not rock the boat. It is easier. And I actually was recently told by one of my former superintendents who gave me a job, he said, “Kip, you like to fight.” And I said, “Not true. Fight comes to me. I just don’t avoid it.” Because at the end of the day, as a principle, what kind of principal do you want? If you want a principal who’s going to allow a student safety issue to just fester because I’m worried about my job, or do you want a school leader who says—even if you don’t understand it, even if you think I’m the worst human being—I want to get up in the morning and know that I made a call, I made a decision for student safety.
And I know school leaders and educators get criticized so much. We have this epidemic of making it okay to bash educators or school leaders, right? And I’m like, stop. That’s why I also wrote the book. Like, live in my office for a day and tell me whether you would want me as your principal who’s making the call or someone else, right? And we have to work together. We have to unearth all these assumptions that somehow you know my job better than I do. Fine, come on in. I’ll show you what I’m dealing with, and give me the time. And that’s why I’m very active on social media. I get criticized for that, but I think I’m opening the door to my school with so many amazing students, incredible educators—and we don’t do that enough. But we’re working our hearts out here. And just because there’s a few bad actors, don’t bash the entire profession. We’re in it with you. We’re doing the most important job that we would ever do, which is taking care of your kids, right? So, let us work with you. Let us help you. Help us. So, that’s what I have to say about that.
Stefan: Yeah. I mean, it reminds me today I was listening to a podcast with Ted Dintersmith. Ted raised a lot of the issues that you just discussed, right? Like the pressure with kids on school, all the pressure, the standardized curriculum, which maybe doesn’t really—you know, the most difficult parts of it—maybe no one uses, right? He’s really kind of talking about the importance of redirecting things towards like energy and agency. And something I’ve always said, most of these students, they go to school for like 25% of their lives. We got to make it a happier place and I think AI kind of gives a chance for students to feel empowered. I mean they’re out there creating all these things. On my Substack today I just highlighted a few things that students were doing and I know you shared some stuff on your Substack with your students. What are some of the great things your students are doing on your tech leadership council? What are some couple examples of some amazing things they’ve done?
Chapter 11: Student Innovation with AI
Kip: Yes. So they are trying to provide tech solutions for the problems that they’re experiencing personally which is great. So one of the things that we are working on—or my students are working, I’m not even helping actually, I’m just there like, “Oh good job,” I’m the cheerleader—we do these “time estimators” before selecting courses.
And my students said that it’s on a piece of paper. Nobody uses that first of all. They were very honest like, “Dr. Glazer, who writes this stuff?” and I’m like, “I don’t know, we always gave it to you.” “We need to digitize this.” I’m like, “Time maybe a piece of paper is okay, you scribble.” And he’s like, “No.” And he’s programming to say that the time estimator is also wrong. He said it just talks about after-school hours or homework hours, right? He’s like, “I need a dynamic data set.”
So he’s building this tool for students to go on and say for this class, like AP Physics, not only do you have to have this much time in homework, this much time average to study for a test, how often the test is—all these estimations. And I keep encouraging them to really think that it’s not the product itself that is the most amazing, because let me just tell you, “vibe coding” and all of that, my students can produce beautiful product—but I said it’s the thinking. What parameter are you going to put and how are you going to code? What is the workflow? What is the UX? All those conversations that you’re having with different people.
Okay. And then go out and test it, iterate, prototype, all those things, every step of the way. And being kind when you’re sending an email and say, “Hey, can you test out my product?” Like, “How do we speak?” All those things. Of course they used ChatGPT and all of that like Claude, whatever, but still: “Does this sound like you? Does this sound polite? Is this the way that you want to get information? Does it get at what you’re trying to do?” Like every step of the way, they’re learning.
Another project that my student and I are going to test is what we call an “admin observation app,” where I gave them a challenge. I said, “As a principal, I want to be in different classrooms. My challenge is, first of all, I don’t even know where I was yesterday.” It’s very hard to know where I visited and who, like I’m being real here. And also, every time I visit, I want to send something nice, but I’m like, “Ah, I just don’t want to send some ChatGPT-generated silliness.” And so, we’re creating this app for them to give me the tool that I can test. But again, the process of getting there, whatever the tool is—we keep talking about that because I think we need to move away from this obsession of the final product to the process of refinement and reaching excellence as a collective. Then AI tools can help us along the way, and that’s sort of how we need to build our learning in the future.
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Chapter 12: Rethinking Assessment in an AI World
Anand: What I love about that—I mean, there are so many things I love about that—focusing on the process over the product. And I think in particular that it then gives students this foundation that whatever the tool is, they’re going to be able to integrate it into that process. It’s not teaching them Claude or teaching them Gemini; it’s teaching them the process and then figuring out what tools are going to help them get there. Well, I’d love to explore that a little bit further. And one thing that you said earlier in the conversation that I think you’re so right on about is that students can tell hypocrisy. So, you know, if they’re in my class and I’m doing, “Hey, process over product,” and then I grade the product, they’ll see, “Hey, it didn’t really matter how I got that. I didn’t have to be nice to so-and-so on my team because I’m just grading the product.” So, how do you incorporate that into the assessment? And how does that work with the teachers? Did they—were they on board with that? Are they still having trouble? Because I think that’s just a very different model for a lot of teachers to integrate.
Kip: Yes. And that’s the biggest challenge, right? That’s why my tech internship program is sort of sitting outside of the regular school day. And you can look at it two different ways. We can look at it: “You’re not influencing your system anyway, so why bother?” Or: “How would my teachers know to do that and know that they have permission to do that unless there is a model that they can actually look at?”
So I would be the first one to tell you my teachers are still very much focused on how to get them to pass the AP test and how to sort of prepare them for what existed pre-AI. And I don’t blame them because that’s a system and also higher ed has a piece in it, right? If you stop accepting these sort of candidates or applicants, then maybe we can have the adjustment. So it has to be all the way through—the misalignment that Yash was talking about at Common Sense’s media summit.
So that’s what I’m doing. I am one of those people. We have an issue and I think sometimes the problem or issue is so big that you feel paralyzed and you don’t feel like you can do anything. I reject that notion. You can do something. And what am I doing? What is “my something” that I can do? Okay, I’m building a program, and the tech internship program is in its second year. There are some things that are amazing. My students got to go to the Common Sense Media summit.
There are other things. I just got an email—like a manifesto—from one of the tech interns. She’s like, “You’re unorganized. Nobody can understand what the meeting structure is. Where’s the agenda?” And I was like, “Hey, I have six leaders.” And I shared it and I said, “She’s absolutely right. These are the things that we’re not doing so well. So, how do we respond? What do we do?” So now she’s actually going to be part of my leadership team, right?
And if I say I want constructive feedback and I’m going to reward that, then I have to model it. And I do that with my teachers too, right? Because to me, a complaint is feedback and there is definitely a gap. Don’t be mean about it, but let’s unearth the gap and let’s bridge the gap. And I think the more you model that as a leader, the better that teachers can go, “Oh, I can maybe do the same thing.” So then I’m not so obsessed with meeting the curriculum timeline. Maybe I can have a little more flexibility in how I’m assessing.
And I saw that one of my teachers—instead of doing a traditional senior thesis 10-page report—she actually went to presentation creation and oral presentation like debate, right? That’s happening in my English class. I was so excited. She used to do the oral presentation, but it had to be submitted as this 20-page paper. Instead, she’s not even doing that anymore. She’s just doing a slide deck and then they have to submit the note cards and they are doing one-on-one meetings with her. Great. That’s a huge win. And I’m going to encourage her to continue doing that. So, I think we’re all in this together. I’m not interested in finger-pointing. I’m interested in the solution. And when I see a great solution, let’s double down and spread the idea and do more of it.
Yeah. I mean I think you obviously want a lot of things to happen quickly, and they don’t, but small wins—you know, I did a presentation the other day and afterwards a physics professor said she was going to have the kids do a project and present it orally rather than write a paper. I thought, you know, a paper in physics—I hadn’t thought of that, but I guess you could do a study, right? And then a business school professor said, oh maybe she’d have the kids try to start a business rather than write a paper about that. So it was just two. Others were, you know, still a little skeptical, but it kind of builds, right? And it kind of creates that situation.
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Chapter 13: When Students Know More Than Teachers
Stefan: I noticed one thing—I think you posted this on LinkedIn—you said your students taught you how to use Open Claw and Claude, right? And just from seeing you on LinkedIn and getting to know you a little bit better here, I’m sure you thought that was great, but how do all the teachers deal with this dynamic? I mean there’s always been some kids who knew something more than a teacher, right? I mean it’s just normal, natural. But now we’re starting to see kids who know a lot about something—a lot more than a teacher. That has a huge impact, right? I mean they can go out and build their own business products, get invited to conferences, raise millions of dollars when they’re teenagers. And especially being in Silicon Valley, right, it’s probably even more likely to happen just because of families and stuff. How do you start to see that dynamic in your school? How are teachers reacting to that? How do you react to it?
Kip: I believe that always existed. I think it got accelerated because we are more visible, right? I was the same teacher, I was a similar administrator before I started posting all these things about what’s happening on my campus on Instagram and LinkedIn, right? I don’t think—I mean, I got better, I guess, over time, about posting more than doing the work, and I did get a little bit better about doing the work too.
So for me, I tell other educators: it’s a losing proposition if you’re trying to get smarter than your kids in terms of how much knowledge you have, because there’s always somebody who knows more about something. There’s always somebody who knows less about something than you. So let’s get out of the comparison business in terms of this scale. That’s like a grading mentality—”I get an A, you get a B.” All that.
For me, what we bring as grown-ups in the classroom is our wisdom, lived experience. We have had our hearts broken before—maybe use it! Boyfriend dumps you or something, or we have given birth, we have traveled, we have whatever the life experience is. And what we learn as we get older is that, number one, things that feel so big when you’re 14 are not as big when you’re in your 50s. So, you have to wait it out. Take a deep breath, and you really need to think about all these things that are happening to our kids from that metacognitive space.
And you do remember that kind teacher way more than a physics teacher who taught you that one tiny whatever. I can’t even remember what I learned in physics. I just know that okay, I was in a physics class, I got an A. What did I learn? There were some rules, Newton something something, you know... but I do remember that physics teacher. He was so enthusiastic about physics, I was like, “Oh maybe I should consider physics as a subject or a topic.”
So that’s what I’m saying—I think we have to model as school leaders and as big voices in education that “deep breath.” Right? We’re not in competition with our kids. In fact, if our kids are doing better than we are, great. You’ve done your job. What you can do is help them launch it. When they experience their first stumble, you can say, “Hey, I’ve been there and you could do this. Let’s redirect. Let’s not satisfy everything.” Like those kids: “one B, life is over.” Like, dial back. It’s not over. It’s a long journey. I’m in it with you. I can see you. And I think hopefully the teacher training program is doing that.
Chapter 14: The Dark Side of AI: Data Privacy Concerns
Anand: That’s excellent. I mean, you have such a student-centered perspective on this, and I love the way that the framework that you’ve built out is something that really prepares students with so many different AI tools and possibilities that I think it’s going to equip them for life. But as we all know, there are some other dark corners of AI that we’re facing some challenges. I want to ask you, what’s the single hardest challenge you faced as a principal regarding AI? Maybe one that’s kept you up at night.
Unregulated student data sharing through these tools, right? The other day, I was at an event, and this teacher was describing a situation that happened in her classroom. She said, “Hey, I told my student to just upload your family photos to ChatGPT to get rid of the blemish on that family photo.” And I was just like—I didn’t even know what to say, right? How many ways can I explain to her that that was not the recommendation she should have made?
And I actually took it as: that’s my fault too. As a school leader, I should have made sure that my teachers understand the basic fundamental rules about FERPA and HIPAA. As a teacher, recommending that a student upload a family photo into the free version of ChatGPT is not something that you should be doing. Right?
So we have a lot of work to do, and that teacher—I have to tell you—the nicest, most loving, amazing teacher who loves her students. Right? So then we have to support our teachers and say, “By the way, there is a difference between a school-sanctioned tool and just any free tool, and here’s why we want you to use the school version of it.” And I’m confident that if I ask her, she would have no problem doing it. It’s just that there are so many unregulated tools out there, and we need to do a better job of supporting our educators.
Chapter 15: If You Could Reinvent School…
Stefan: I was going to ask you if there’s like one—and I think you might even talk about that—but you know, if you had a magic wand... in debate we call it “fiat.” If you had a magic wand, what’s one thing you would change? Knowing that you’re going to deal with this for the rest of your career—maybe in 10 years it’ll just be part of everything and no one will talk about it—but given that you’re going to deal with it for the foreseeable future, what would you change?
Kip: I would get rid of these grade-level pre-K–12 systems and turn them into more like a “monastery model” if we want. I think I really would, actually, because I think we talk about personalized differentiated instruction, but still within the structure, right? We want to do it in the kindergarten classroom with the same age group, and I’m like, “Why are we limiting ourselves?”
Let’s be okay with... we do this in sports, right? There is an age bracket, and some 13-year-old can run faster than an 18-year-old, and you put that human on Varsity. We do it because we accept that in physical prowess, there is a human variability, and we’re going to be okay with it. We actually celebrate it. We support it. And I think I wish we could do that with some of these academics.
And I think as much as I’m all about inclusion—because I think that fundamentally learning is social and learning has to be more than just knowledge acquisition—but I can tell you, Yash, my student, is brilliant in computing and programming, and he’s going to beat me by 100 miles, right? But I’m not in competition with him in how fast I can code. I’m actually in community with him in helping him to be a kinder, friendlier human.
And I tell him all the time, “When you make billions, please do good. Don’t turn into those evil tech bros. How much money does one person need? Give away a little bit. Right? You can do both. You can have a great, luxurious, rich life, and you can give back to the community to have an enriching life at the same time.” And he’s like, “I know Dr. Glazer, you say that every day.” And I’m like, “But we need to say it. We need to say it louder. We need to say it more often.”
We’re all in this together, right? We can do it. We are smarter than the problem. I always tell my students: “Together we’re smarter than the problem.” Let’s do this and let’s be kind. Let’s be good people because at the end of the day, when you’re taking your last breath, what kind of life would you have lived? With friends and family and loved ones, you contributed back to your community. That’s what I hope for you. I say that to anybody who listens. My students, they roll their eyes, and I’m like, “Stop. I’m trying to program and pass my AP Physics test, and like... You need to hear this.”
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Chapter 16: What Keeps Educators Going
Anand: That’s great. What I love is that consistently, through your message, is that it’s not just about what happens in the classroom. It’s about a broader life experience. Let me ask you one more question, and we’ll close out with this. There’s a concern about a lot of teachers leaving the field—I saw a recent survey that nearly half of teachers in California are thinking about leaving in the next decade.
It’s a concern for leaders, especially. I want to ask a little bit about what keeps you going when you’re facing all of these challenges and these concerns. As a closing message, what is it that keeps you going? And what message would you have for other educators that hopefully will keep them going?
Kip: Oh, I have no idea what keeps me going. I think about leaving every other day—kidding, not. I’m just being very serious. Yeah. And why do I show up to work? First of all, I guess I like to eat. But in all seriousness, I think many leaders and educators have this sense of duty, right? If not me, then who?
And if there is somebody better, then I will step away. For now, they just got me. And I’m just going to show up and do the best job I can until I can do no more, no better, and step aside. And I think that’s sort of like keeping things simple. And I see that my staff needs somebody to stand between whatever it is—the swirling around it—and them, so they can just focus on the kids.
And so I don’t even know how to answer that. I just wake up in the morning and just come to work and do the best I can. And I see my students enjoying life without worries, and that gives me satisfaction. And I think the more we can think about that, the better we can support one another.
Anand: Well, they’re lucky to have you. Kip, thanks so much for joining us and I encourage everybody to check out your book, Ready to Lead with AI. I think you have so many lessons to share. We really appreciate you taking the time to join us today.
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.